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		<title>Is Drupal Destined to be a Boutique CMS?</title>
		<description>Discuss Is Drupal Destined to be a Boutique CMS?</description>
		<link>http://www.alledia.com/blog/general-cms-issues/drupal-boutique-cms/</link>
		<lastBuildDate>Thu, 09 Feb 2012 01:25:40 +0000</lastBuildDate>
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			<title>Nganigaba says:</title>
			<link>http://www.alledia.com/blog/general-cms-issues/drupal-boutique-cms/#comment-9832</link>
			<description><![CDATA[Based on security ,performance and popurality what is the difference bn Joomla and other CMSs?]]></description>
			<dc:creator>Nganigaba</dc:creator>
			<pubDate>Sat, 11 Sep 2010 10:06:41 +0000</pubDate>
			<guid>http://www.alledia.com/blog/general-cms-issues/drupal-boutique-cms/#comment-9832</guid>
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			<title>Joseph LeBlanc says:</title>
			<link>http://www.alledia.com/blog/general-cms-issues/drupal-boutique-cms/#comment-8822</link>
			<description><![CDATA[@dakruhm Ok, I think we agree that community + company would lead to more momentum and stability. === As far as production ready goes, I think I was more confused as to whether you were referring to Operating Systems or Open Source projects by "OS's". And if that's the criteria for "production ready," Windows fails right away on Reliability: it seems that you have to manually reboot the server every time you want to apply a patch. === I've spent some time talking to the people who write PHP itself and they would give you a VERY different answer about Zend's sponsorship of the PHP community: http://twitter.com/CalEvans/status/4468308961 (Cal used to work for Zend)]]></description>
			<dc:creator>Joseph LeBlanc</dc:creator>
			<pubDate>Tue, 29 Sep 2009 10:40:50 +0000</pubDate>
			<guid>http://www.alledia.com/blog/general-cms-issues/drupal-boutique-cms/#comment-8822</guid>
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			<title>dakruhm says:</title>
			<link>http://www.alledia.com/blog/general-cms-issues/drupal-boutique-cms/#comment-8820</link>
			<description><![CDATA[@Joseph Your points are taken :-) Community by itself has issues. Company by itself isn't failsafe. My point is that: community + company = greater growth (than either one by itself). Joomla is missing half of this equation and could be stronger if the void was filled. ============= "However, could you clarify what you mean by "There are zero OS's that are considered production ready"?" I even hesitated writing the sentence because I figured someone would point it out but went with it anyway (I may even retract it). I suppose I should rephrase by adding "in general, there are zero...". Meaning the majority of installs are supported or fueled -in whole or in large portion- by time, talent and dollars that come from an organization. (Does that give me enough outs? ;-) ) Production ready... hmmmm... Good point. Let's think about this. I would include: -Reliability: designed to run without intervention 24/7. -Stability: using trusted, stable, well supported versions of the a kernel and packages that will result in maximum uptime. -Actively maintained (with leadership): where a package is shown insecure or inferior to its candidate, it is replaced. -Active community: goes without saying. -Extensibility: the project can be extended without interference on the core. Here is the OS arena: http://upload.wikimedia.org/wikipedia/commons/e/ed/LinuxDistroTimeline.png ============== "the PHP project itself doesn't really get any leadership from corporate sponsors" I would consider Zend to be a corporate sponsor. ============== "will have an automatic updater utility (such as the one for WordPress) in the core; this is currently available as a 1.5 component." Yea, Rick turned me onto it a few months ago. Regards,]]></description>
			<dc:creator>dakruhm</dc:creator>
			<pubDate>Tue, 29 Sep 2009 00:33:27 +0000</pubDate>
			<guid>http://www.alledia.com/blog/general-cms-issues/drupal-boutique-cms/#comment-8820</guid>
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			<title>Joseph LeBlanc says:</title>
			<link>http://www.alledia.com/blog/general-cms-issues/drupal-boutique-cms/#comment-8814</link>
			<description><![CDATA[@dakruhm I totally agree that a corporate sponsor would help ease a lot of the development overhead. It would add some additional stability to the project, and would provide resources for things the community hasn't gotten around to (like unit testing). However, could you clarify what you mean by "There are zero OS's that are considered production ready"? This sounds eerily familiar to the people in my city (Washington DC) who drone about "enterprise ready" without being able to give a clear definition of what they mean by the phrase. I went to a CMS summit a couple of years ago at Yahoo where Drupal, Joomla, Alfresco, and several commercial CMSes where represented. At the first session, Rasmus Lerdorf did a security rundown of each CMS. While he did find some holes in Drupal and Joomla (which were promptly fixed), the proprietary corporate-backed CMSes had demonstrably worse bugs. We went to the homepage of one of these products; there were raw SQL queries in the HTML comments! So while corporate sponsors can provide quite a bit in the way of resources, it doesn't guarantee that you'll necessarily be better prepared for a production environment. As far as leadership goes, the PHP project itself doesn't really get any leadership from corporate sponsors. Yahoo!, Digg, and others have all either put resources into PHP or dedicated full-time programmers to it. But the development is still community-driven. Nobody at Yahoo! is making a PHP release schedule or prioritizing features. Also, the only lack of upgrade path I'm aware of is from 1.0 -> 1.5. The transition from 1.5 -> 1.6 will be far less drastic, and 1.6 will have an automatic updater utility (such as the one for WordPress) in the core; this is currently available as a 1.5 component.]]></description>
			<dc:creator>Joseph LeBlanc</dc:creator>
			<pubDate>Sat, 26 Sep 2009 12:57:53 +0000</pubDate>
			<guid>http://www.alledia.com/blog/general-cms-issues/drupal-boutique-cms/#comment-8814</guid>
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			<title>Dakruhm says:</title>
			<link>http://www.alledia.com/blog/general-cms-issues/drupal-boutique-cms/#comment-8812</link>
			<description><![CDATA[Hi everyone, The lack of a corporate sponsor will eventually show through on Joomla. The more mature OS playing field has already forcasted this to the web app arena. There are zero OS's that are considered production ready. Every usable OS is a part of or downstream from a corporate sponsored project. Joseph has already pointed out one major area of security that has been dragging & the lack of an upgrade path is another, off the top of my head. Without a corporate sponsor leading the way, the project becomes too fragmented & diluted & eventually yields to a project that is better maintained. Projects are nothing more than the sum efforts of dedicated individuals. With community-driven projects, the number of individuals are present but they lack direction & leadership. Afterall, how effectively can you lead a group of volunteers compared to a group of well-paid, well-trained professionals who direct attention to the project everyday? I'm a big Joomla fan like the rest around here. But we shouldn't be foolish to think that history doesn't apply.]]></description>
			<dc:creator>Dakruhm</dc:creator>
			<pubDate>Fri, 25 Sep 2009 21:20:11 +0000</pubDate>
			<guid>http://www.alledia.com/blog/general-cms-issues/drupal-boutique-cms/#comment-8812</guid>
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			<title>Steve Tsiopanos says:</title>
			<link>http://www.alledia.com/blog/general-cms-issues/drupal-boutique-cms/#comment-8780</link>
			<description><![CDATA[@Dan K: I was with you until you made this statement - "because Joomla is not just a little bit behind. " First off, Joomla does not have a core "business model". It is supported by a non-profit company. The core philosophy is making accessible to all, a powerful, easily extensible CMS. To that end, they have succeeded in besting every other CMS (I would like to someone try to argue against this). Drupal is testing it's corporate mettle with Acquia, but only in that Acquia is a pay-for-support product. If you want to find a parallel, check out SugarCRM. At the most basic level, Drupal and Joomla have the same endowments - PHP/MySQL/Java. The only difference is in the framework and in Joomla, I find it spectacularly capable. The proof is in the pudding: Why does Joomla have the best extensions directory? Why does it have to most highly evolved commercial template ecosystem? Is it some kind of fault that Joomla easier & faster for developing extensions? Do Drupal users think Joomla is a noob-ridden community due to the plethora of templates and extensions available to it and the ease with which they can be implemented? Look, I studied Mech. Eng. at UMCP, I did customer support for Micros, I was an IT support specialist, and now I'm an Open Source web developer and I can tell you one thing: Professionals in the field like to keep their craft close to their chest. Drupal represents small, educated elite club of programmers who can reap great profit from their specialty. There's nothing wrong with this. Microsoft software developers have been doing it for years! Joomla does *not* represent what I just described. It levels the playing field make progress easier, faster, and truly an endeavor shared by the community. My only concern is that Joomla may not always be constantly pressured to maintain it's high standards and professionalism , like the heavily funded Drupal and Wordpress projects. Joomla's motivation is intrinsic and altruistic. I understand that money talks and, in that sense, Joomla may not have such advocates as Drupal (and Wordpress) enjoy. Beyond that, a little research on the web should allay anyone's fears about its future and developmental support. As for Drupal, it will most likely continue to successfuly serve it's niche market for years to come.]]></description>
			<dc:creator>Steve Tsiopanos</dc:creator>
			<pubDate>Wed, 16 Sep 2009 10:26:17 +0000</pubDate>
			<guid>http://www.alledia.com/blog/general-cms-issues/drupal-boutique-cms/#comment-8780</guid>
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			<title>Dan K says:</title>
			<link>http://www.alledia.com/blog/general-cms-issues/drupal-boutique-cms/#comment-8779</link>
			<description><![CDATA[Of course! Drupal is "destined" to be and always has been a boutique burger to Joomla's McDonalds. But even McDonalds changes the menu and rolls out some new same-old same-old every year or so. Joomla 1.6 development appears to be stalled again--something about devs busy trying to feed their families. I guess popularity is not feeding them. Barring major internal changes to Drupal.org, the Drupal culture, community and general ecosystem, Drupal has always been for coding geeks who don't understand or care for design, or small teams who do and are thus able to make a decent and admirable living off of it. Joomla is more like the Wow! story of the hour, the $150 space camera built entirely with off the shelf material, no hacking required: http://space.1337arts.com/ Pay a few bucks for some extensions and templates--you can rapidly build a high quality Joomla site if you have at least a good grasp of the general concepts involved. With good planning and research skills you can reach for the stars and not get bogged down on technical details, thanks to all the 3PD extensions that keep Joomla from being abandonware. Note in this cheap space camera story it is the work of low-income students using cheap consumer electronics produced in sweat shops. NASA--a "boutique" space agency after the cold war--still pays a lot of people a lot of real money for real jobs. Maybe a better question for Joomla is, when does massive popularity turn into dollars? Is popularity a business model? I bet the money being made off of Drupal, especially in the largest concentrations, is close to (perhaps even more than) what's being made off of Joomla. There's probably no way to measure this, but what can be measured--Drupal.org vs. Joomla.org and their respective trademark folders--shows Joomla to be the pauper by far. Even without the clear and ongoing history of conflict and resentment between core developers and commercial extension developers, the whole thing is very dicey for the long haul--keeping a competitive core product that makes real money for people brings enough back in to support the core product. As to some of the comments about Joomla's features and 1.6, some of the expectations need to be dialed in a bit. I doubt many more people will run over to Joomla 1.6 from Drupal for the ACL than those who run from Joomla to Drupal 7 for the new admin interface. (Assuming both come out around the same time.) The real competition, if there was one, would be happening at a higher level than feature development. Drupal 7 and the growth of Acquia in partnership with companies like IBM and Microsoft (if that all pans out) should prove to be a strength on a level that Joomla doesn't exist on. But maybe Drupal is at that level and not Joomla, because Joomla is not just a little bit behind. This is not just because of some "ACL" issue. (The early 1.6 dev ACL management actually looked more convoluted and less robust than Drupal's.) Joomla is deeply and profoundly the technical inferior to Drupal at its core. Drupal has had custom content data structures and presentation capabilities for a long time: *custom content and user types/fields *custom access rules integrated with all extensions *custom content taxonomy offering true category multimapping *treats everything integrally as content in a node based system that has been talked about for at least 3 years as "where we want to go" by the ever-fluctuating Joomla team. (Apparently all talk, no action.) *solid URL aliasing *custom XML aggregation and output That is not to say Joomla is "bad." Joomla compensates for its technical deficiencies in many ways (known as extensions), and these deficiencies often do not matter because you are not building a website to do X better than Drupal--you just want to do X and maybe make it look pretty in the process. You do this by using a cheap plug-and-play beaten path solution. With Drupal you have to go more in the direction of planning and building a custom solution for every project, so naturally the projects cost more.]]></description>
			<dc:creator>Dan K</dc:creator>
			<pubDate>Tue, 15 Sep 2009 22:37:20 +0000</pubDate>
			<guid>http://www.alledia.com/blog/general-cms-issues/drupal-boutique-cms/#comment-8779</guid>
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			<title>Ace says:</title>
			<link>http://www.alledia.com/blog/general-cms-issues/drupal-boutique-cms/#comment-8763</link>
			<description><![CDATA[I wish I knew drupal, but it is time consuming, and get stuck on some things. I love how you can mix modules to achieve your goal. In Joomla things are already package in an extension, and might not support other extensions Drupal + views + cck = amazing In the end I think Drupal is harder to learn (hooks,themes) and takes times in creating a website, so many settle with Joomla]]></description>
			<dc:creator>Ace</dc:creator>
			<pubDate>Tue, 15 Sep 2009 09:51:32 +0000</pubDate>
			<guid>http://www.alledia.com/blog/general-cms-issues/drupal-boutique-cms/#comment-8763</guid>
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			<title>rawraj says:</title>
			<link>http://www.alledia.com/blog/general-cms-issues/drupal-boutique-cms/#comment-8735</link>
			<description><![CDATA[I use Joomla and have had the same feeling about drupal. I had searched for drupal during my initial days of getting into CMS. All I found was PR videos, articles all telling us how drupal was gods gift to mankind and how joomla sucks. Well I believed them, and I found it so much more difficult to find information on Drupal. There are no tutorials on the net(except by some few good souls) only what can be done with drupal and how it can be done better by drupal. It is an elitist community and you have to be a hardcore drupalist(if you can call them that) to be in the community. You need to be a hardcore programmer who does not need help. We are accepted only if we attend their Drupal cons and training cons and buy the costly books and tutorials. I do agree it is better than Joomla in many aspects but there is nothing you cannot do in joomla that you can drupal especially considering the amount of skill required for being a drupal expert. If you had that much skill you could override anything in joomla and create some kick ass components. Coming to the point. I do not agree this Search Trends prove that Joomla is more famous. Like someone else already pointed out. It looks as though there are a lot of beginners in Joomla. You should see some of the queries in the Joomla forums. These guys do not even bother to read up on the guides. They just cannot change the menu. They get joomla install it(oh before that search google for , Install joomla. Databse name joomla. Host server joomla. DB joomla) and then after it is done search for "add/change menus joomla", "add new article joomla" There are these template sites I am a member of one. They have absolutely no knowledge of Joomla some of them have setup Webdesign business with the strategy, "download template install, enter data, deliver site, make money". You should see how they struggle with basic joomla queries. I am sure they would be generating half of Joomla searches on the net. So this is really not a fair comparison at all. Drupal searches are less because people never get past the installation stage. Also hardcore drupal developers are in the forums, there are limited drupal forums and they would prefer rather searching the forums than google directly(that is what I do for joomla too). Some members of template sites do not even know that a forum for joomla exists. What I had always thought about I do not know if it is possible. There is one definitive source to find out how many sites use joomla, wordpress, drupal etc. Is we should have a crawler that will crawl all websites and search for the tags in a page code for tags that are used in joomla, wordpress to identify it. I think that setting up a dedicated crawler for this would require lots of resources so maybe try and see if the google or other bots can also be used to get this data. One problem thought drupal user mostly customize their sites to such an extent that you cannot make out if drupal is used. But still you can atleast make out how many Joomla site actually exist. How about starting a project for that. I am sure it will be a great project]]></description>
			<dc:creator>rawraj</dc:creator>
			<pubDate>Thu, 10 Sep 2009 08:51:18 +0000</pubDate>
			<guid>http://www.alledia.com/blog/general-cms-issues/drupal-boutique-cms/#comment-8735</guid>
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			<title>Joomla Expert says:</title>
			<link>http://www.alledia.com/blog/general-cms-issues/drupal-boutique-cms/#comment-8693</link>
			<description><![CDATA[You did a good analysis but you I have come across more information about this here. Drupal v/s Joomla here]]></description>
			<dc:creator>Joomla Expert</dc:creator>
			<pubDate>Thu, 03 Sep 2009 09:20:03 +0000</pubDate>
			<guid>http://www.alledia.com/blog/general-cms-issues/drupal-boutique-cms/#comment-8693</guid>
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