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		<title>New Products from a Joomla Lead Developer</title>
		<description>Discuss New Products from a Joomla Lead Developer</description>
		<link>http://www.alledia.com/blog/joomla-sites/new-products-from-a-joomla-lead-developer/</link>
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			<title>unleash.it says:</title>
			<link>http://www.alledia.com/blog/joomla-sites/new-products-from-a-joomla-lead-developer/#comment-6622</link>
			<description><![CDATA[First of all, I'd like to wish Andrew and the guys great success with their business model. Open source developers need to make a good living like anyone else and it would be great for all if that can happen through a more friendly and open model like the GPL. Best of luck! However, there are many of us end users who are maybe a bit less concerned about money and more concerned about having a working system when all is said and done. The biggest problem with Joomla as it is now, is getting required functions (through extensions/extending the system) to live together. The current philosphy that Andrew mentions: In my opinion is what is going to keep a CMS like Joomla from evolving and keeping up with competition. As much as I love Joomla and would like to continue using it, I am frustrated when I can't get SEO, a site map, or the even core Joomla modules to work with a particular extension or extension suite. Not everyone needs everything and I think extensions certainly have their place, but the current philosophy seems to hold back on getting some basic stuff in the core. To be a real CMS and keep relevant IMO, Joomla will need to have at the minimum built right in: commenting, an improved publishing workflow, better ACL, better taxonomy, better SEO and custom feilds in content. Then extensions can be around for all kinds of things like e-commerce, etc. Sorry if this is asking for a lot! But again imHo that's what is needed to bring Joomla to full potential. Do that, and more people will buy your extensions...because there will be that many more people using Joomla.]]></description>
			<dc:creator>unleash.it</dc:creator>
			<pubDate>Tue, 20 May 2008 19:32:24 +0000</pubDate>
			<guid>http://www.alledia.com/blog/joomla-sites/new-products-from-a-joomla-lead-developer/#comment-6622</guid>
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			<title>Cory Webb says:</title>
			<link>http://www.alledia.com/blog/joomla-sites/new-products-from-a-joomla-lead-developer/#comment-6540</link>
			<description><![CDATA[Thanks for the insights, Andrew. Best of luck to you and the other guys at jXtended.]]></description>
			<dc:creator>Cory Webb</dc:creator>
			<pubDate>Wed, 07 May 2008 14:33:26 +0000</pubDate>
			<guid>http://www.alledia.com/blog/joomla-sites/new-products-from-a-joomla-lead-developer/#comment-6540</guid>
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			<title>Steve Burge says:</title>
			<link>http://www.alledia.com/blog/joomla-sites/new-products-from-a-joomla-lead-developer/#comment-6536</link>
			<description><![CDATA[Hi Guys I've added a couple of other business models to the list - donations and ogosense's suggestion to increase prices. Thanks for the detailed answers Chris and Andrew. The situation in software (much more than just Joomla) feels to me almost like the record industry. The cost of distribution has plummeted to zero and people increasingly expect to get things for free. The problem is that a new, successful business model hasn't emerged yet. Radiohead got a lot of press for giving away their last album but even they're saying that they won't be doing that anymore (http://www.canada.com/topics/technology/science/story.html?id=98a3544f-6c6c-41eb-a2a6-087101062bc8&k=23286). Steve]]></description>
			<dc:creator>Steve Burge</dc:creator>
			<pubDate>Wed, 07 May 2008 12:29:28 +0000</pubDate>
			<guid>http://www.alledia.com/blog/joomla-sites/new-products-from-a-joomla-lead-developer/#comment-6536</guid>
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			<title>Aaron Fowler says:</title>
			<link>http://www.alledia.com/blog/joomla-sites/new-products-from-a-joomla-lead-developer/#comment-6537</link>
			<description><![CDATA[Andrew, thanks for your insight. I did end up buying Magazine and so far I'm very impressed. I already know of 2 sites that it will fit right into. Currently, the only con is sparse documentation, but looking through the forums you mention that you will be addressing that soon.]]></description>
			<dc:creator>Aaron Fowler</dc:creator>
			<pubDate>Wed, 07 May 2008 09:29:18 +0000</pubDate>
			<guid>http://www.alledia.com/blog/joomla-sites/new-products-from-a-joomla-lead-developer/#comment-6537</guid>
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			<title>Andrew Eddie says:</title>
			<link>http://www.alledia.com/blog/joomla-sites/new-products-from-a-joomla-lead-developer/#comment-6539</link>
			<description><![CDATA[Firstly, Steve, thanks for the follow-up on this one. Was very flattered by it. Thanks all for posting ideas and thoughts as well. It's a pretty big area and there are probably lots of sand-traps lying in wait as well as the potential for sustainable success (I don't know about making Louis, Rob and I rich ... just comfortable will do, hehe). Going with a GPL model is quite releasing in one sense. You don't have to stress over piracy nor add the cost of enforcement to your overheads. But it does have some downsides. As pointed out, trial versions are virtually impossible because people legally have no incentive to purchase. That presents some challenges in the way we market the information for the subscription products - but there are ways to do that. On the issue of distribution we aren't naive. It will happen one day, if not already but we went into this knowing full well the risks vs rewards. But then again, if you don't want to pay for support, you aren't getting any either. Taken to the extreme we've gained more reference sites than we have to support ;-) In terms of funding, we also draw on the resources of our respective companies (New Life in IT and webImagery) and we have many clients that "chip in" for extra, and sometimes major, features (notably the good people at www.ptotoday.com, www.planeandpilotmagazine.com, www.beonliving.com, Toowoomba Regional Council and many more) - we just advertise that in a different way. Conflict of interest comes up a lot. It's something I am always conscious of and have quite a few trusted people that keep me accountable given my position. However, I don't think the project would want our code verbatim as we tend to experiment a lot with different techniques that would frustrate the living daylights out of any 3PD that tried to follow them. The project is probably not interested in supporting another two or three Uber-components (Magazine and Catalog are easily more than thrice the size and complexity of com_content). But having said that, we've put a lot of research in the access control area (because we need it for our own systems) and are releasing that back to our (JXtended's) community free of charge, and it may very well form the basis of what we see in 1.6 if that's the way the project wants to go. All up, I like to think we are trying to strike a healthy balance between building a viable income model and still give back to the community (aka Joomla!) on which we depend. This is a long term venture for us (certainly no quick bucks to be made) which we will be building the business over a period of probably 2-3 years. Time will tell how it goes but we are quietly encouraged by the response so far.]]></description>
			<dc:creator>Andrew Eddie</dc:creator>
			<pubDate>Wed, 07 May 2008 01:21:31 +0000</pubDate>
			<guid>http://www.alledia.com/blog/joomla-sites/new-products-from-a-joomla-lead-developer/#comment-6539</guid>
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			<title>Daniel Chapman says:</title>
			<link>http://www.alledia.com/blog/joomla-sites/new-products-from-a-joomla-lead-developer/#comment-6534</link>
			<description><![CDATA[@Aaron, then we can agree to disagree. I would like to see successful examples of this model you propose. I agree that for massive frameworks such as linux or mysql it can work, but I still feel it isn't feasible for a small scale entrepreneur developing his own stuff. If has been tried a million times and none of them succeeded. If only a handful out of millions do, then it can't really be considered a reliable model regardless. I know of 3 commercial GPL developers who saw their income drop by as much as 50% overnight when their code popped up on a site and was made free to download. If people were so keen to pay for good quality code why did their income drop? @Cory - Take a read of the GNU gpl, it is spattered with 'for the good of the community' 'to benefit others' etc. There is no lasting benefit about driving all the developers to use proprietary models, or simply stop developing. You get a small 'benefit' that more people can use a program without providing the developer with anything for their effort, but without a system to support continued production it's a case of killing the goose that laid the golden egg. I doubt highly that the GPL exists purely to kill off any sort of reward for developers which is what you seem to be suggesting. What is however needed I think is a rethink of the model completely. Because of this, as I see it, weakness in FOSS that it encourages not rewarding developers for the production of products, developers need to look at alternatives for making some income. The support model is another one that doesn't work well unless you have a large team, complex code and a massive customer base, a module and bot programmer simply isn't going to be able to make a living purely from support, because if he does then he spends all his time working support and not developing the extension. p.s. how many of the people discussing here have actually tried a GPL business model? I just want to get an idea of how much hands on experience we all actually have vs theory.]]></description>
			<dc:creator>Daniel Chapman</dc:creator>
			<pubDate>Tue, 06 May 2008 19:03:32 +0000</pubDate>
			<guid>http://www.alledia.com/blog/joomla-sites/new-products-from-a-joomla-lead-developer/#comment-6534</guid>
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			<title>Ogy Nikolic says:</title>
			<link>http://www.alledia.com/blog/joomla-sites/new-products-from-a-joomla-lead-developer/#comment-6533</link>
			<description><![CDATA[Guys, I enjoyed reading your comments and I have nothing to add except something I've noticed in the original post by Steve: People buy credits that cost between $8 and $10 depending on how many they buy. The Catalog cost 9 credits costs 9 credits ($90), Magazine costs 7 credits (around $70) and Comments costs 3 credits (around $30). I think these components are simply too cheap. If you had someone contact you just a few times, you've lost more money than what you have made. Instead of charging the least amount possible, you should charge as much as market will allow. Then with this extra money, you may even donate it if it's too much ;-) ;-) I a big supporter of Open Source, but we need to ensure to make the living as the job requires an intelligence greater of an average person. I think the biggest issues for developers is that they are too much in love with the development that they don't spend enough time on the business aspect of their operation.]]></description>
			<dc:creator>Ogy Nikolic</dc:creator>
			<pubDate>Tue, 06 May 2008 16:45:38 +0000</pubDate>
			<guid>http://www.alledia.com/blog/joomla-sites/new-products-from-a-joomla-lead-developer/#comment-6533</guid>
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			<title>Steve Burge says:</title>
			<link>http://www.alledia.com/blog/joomla-sites/new-products-from-a-joomla-lead-developer/#comment-6532</link>
			<description><![CDATA[ True. Also worth considering that in an era when major warez sites aren't just included in Google but actually treated as respectable sites and given sitelinks (PM me for a link if you want to see it), I don't think anyone can stop the redistribution of extensions no matter what the license. Support subscriptions are a possible way to deal with that problem.]]></description>
			<dc:creator>Steve Burge</dc:creator>
			<pubDate>Tue, 06 May 2008 15:19:08 +0000</pubDate>
			<guid>http://www.alledia.com/blog/joomla-sites/new-products-from-a-joomla-lead-developer/#comment-6532</guid>
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			<title>Cory Webb says:</title>
			<link>http://www.alledia.com/blog/joomla-sites/new-products-from-a-joomla-lead-developer/#comment-6531</link>
			<description><![CDATA[@Daniel I have to disagree with this statement: I do not believe this activity (not "technically legal", but just plain legal) is against the intentions of FOSS software. I believe the intention of FOSS software is the free and open distribution of software. The GPL makes provisions for anyone and everyone to freely re-distribute GPL-licensed software for that very purpose. I will say, however, that I believe it would be highly unethical and just plain rude to try and undermine the efforts of companies like jXtended by undercutting their price structure and giving their software away for free..]]></description>
			<dc:creator>Cory Webb</dc:creator>
			<pubDate>Tue, 06 May 2008 14:33:15 +0000</pubDate>
			<guid>http://www.alledia.com/blog/joomla-sites/new-products-from-a-joomla-lead-developer/#comment-6531</guid>
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			<title>Aaron Fowler says:</title>
			<link>http://www.alledia.com/blog/joomla-sites/new-products-from-a-joomla-lead-developer/#comment-6530</link>
			<description><![CDATA[@Daniel, I know I can't demand source code - it would just be nice for them to provide it, given my previous reasons :-) I don't agree that people won't pay - there are already quite a few "open source" companies out there making money from the model of providing service, support, early access to code, etc. for a fee while giving away the code up front. And every business and professional freelance developer I've had contact with would much rather pay for the "supported" version to get these extra features, especially with the reasonable fee that Jxtended is charging. Anyway, I don't want to derail this thread anymore - as Steve said the model are still evolving, and it will be interesting to see what works the best for Joomla developers. Off topic - you responded to my second post, but I only see my first post in the comments. What's up with that?]]></description>
			<dc:creator>Aaron Fowler</dc:creator>
			<pubDate>Tue, 06 May 2008 13:26:02 +0000</pubDate>
			<guid>http://www.alledia.com/blog/joomla-sites/new-products-from-a-joomla-lead-developer/#comment-6530</guid>
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